[jnovak]

Thanks for the help and suggestions there.

But where you say...

Originally Posted by Simon

It seems to work best [and only when] your site is listed at the top part of the results page and all other pages[listed below as in your example] have a high ranking as well.

I am not sure I follow what you mean there... I would expect that following your process for each page would naturally result in Google setting that hierarchy for your website ... or not?

Maybe you mean that if you miss a stage/part out, it will break the ranking-process and result in a lower ranking?

[Simon]

Sorry for the confusion - was in a rush!

For a site to acheive a sub listing [indexing] of it's pages, as with the Leeds University example, the site:

1. Needs to achieve the top spot in a search result
2. Needs to be relevent to the original search
3. Be an index page be it .htm / html / php or asp contained within a sub folder or subdomain
4. Needs to be considered an "authority" site [see note below]

If another page on the same domain is as relevent to the search result but is not an index page then the page gets listed as an indented result below the original one. This indented result can happen much lower down in the search results whereas for sub indexs the page must hit the number 1 slot.

[quick note about....]
Google ad-sense and ad-words work because they display a link to your site on other sites, thus making your site more relevent and therefore listed higher - as long as people click these links and generate traffic to your site. Which works for both the specific company name and general search terms.

Which leads me to "authority site" status. This is a big one and not easy to answer quickly so I'm just going to deal with a specific organisation name search result. If you get the number 1 slot on a google search then google *may* consider your site to be the authority site because it's THE site for the searched organisation name out of a selection [1000's] of similar or related sites - as a search on Leeds University shows. This will not only place the site in the 1st slot but will allow the sub indexing of other parts of the site to which the home page links.

That's the overview but of course it goes much deeper than that. Even if you hit the top spot you may still be considered *just* the most relevant site rather than The Authority Site. You need to carry out a number of other tasks obtain and hold on to this status.

There are 3 main areas to work on but to save my poor fingers and almost certain brain meltdown here is a handy link.

Authority Site Diagram

I hope this more clearly answers your question

[jnovak]

Thanks for that detailed explanation.

Wondered what your connection was to those guys at Authority Site Diagram or did you just reference them for that useful info on "authority sites" ?

[Simon]

just referenced them as I could not be bothered to explain it all

lol

[jnovak]

On the SEO subject again... picking up a few more tips on this and I think it also helps if you...

- put the site in lots of relevant online directories/review sites.
- get lots of inbound links from relevant sites.

Its a difficult field to get into I find, as there is such a lack of relevant documented material.. including books!

I suppose this must stem from the fact that Google has always hidden the details of their exact techniques for ranking sites!

Has anyone heard that the guy who created Wikipedia has created/is creating, a rival Google search-engine... that will allow site-owners to directly influence the ranking of sites..
Search Wikia - search - a Wikia wiki

[Simon]

That's because SEO is still one of the 'Black Arts' and people still tightly hold on to that knowledge.

The number of relevent links in and out of your site will always be a priority task with any SEO task. Using directory sites is a great way of ensuring your site is listed in the first page of a search, even in the early days. There are many free directorys and their SEO has done all the hard work for you.

Links to local businesses, attractions, club sites, tourist information and local government services can also be used [to great effect]. Reciprocol links might be quite hard or impossible to obtain although worth every effort to get one. The additional bonus is that you could also use the target sites main image or logo giving you [usually] some nice interesting imagary and Kudos - people assume you are connected in some way, and your are - but not in they way they assume.

Paying for a directory listing or Google Adwords is an option but payback from these listings is, in my experience, a non-starter. I look at such payments as a capital expenditure - to get my site ranked, rather than a traffic provider or money maker - although it could do both.

Google Adsense is free and should at least be considered. Even though this is going to list your competition [on your own site!] it can have it's uses when making your information pages more relevent to bots by providing external links to similar relevent sites. Your site users may use these links to navigate away from your site and buy elsewhere - but do you ever click them when your on a site? Nope, me neither!

Hope this is continuing to be of help.

[Dvotee]

Would I be correct in saying that whilst incoming links to your site are great, the more the better, out going links from your site can infact hurt your rankings and you should try to keep them to a bear minimum?

(or did I dream that in a late night/early morning coffee enduced design project)

[jnovak]

Thanks for the useful tips there Simon... lots of good pointers!

I think that you are right there Dvotee.. that too many outgoing links from your site can have a detrimental effect, since they act to reduce your Pagerank.

To make it even harder for incoming links... I think it's not only a question of getting any old incoming links, but that the links also need to be...

- keyword relevant to your business
- from sites with good/better Pagerank

I haven't looked into Adsense ... so is it not possible to control the business sector those adds are from? That way you could perhaps reduce the chances they are from direct competitors?

I suppose the main use of links to other useful sites would be to add to your perceived status with your potential clients, indicating you are well connected and knowledgeable.

[Dvotee]

I haven't used Adsense but I think you can choose 'certain categories' that may not be shown.

I have never bothered for the exact reason that Simon states, no one ever clicks on them and I certainly haven't and also find them to be obstrusive and can ruin a site..

If Simon feels that there is an overall benefit then maybe it is something to be considered. (seeing as he appears to 'be the man!')

[jnovak]

Not sure what Simon will make of being labelled as "the man" on SEO !

I have also been put off using Adsense for that specific reason myself. When I see how it works on other sites, to me it makes them look tacky and cluttered.

Perhaps a better approach might be to use "latest news" or "useful articles" pages, where you could add useful relevant links? That might give you more control and be more informative for your site visitors anyhow... extra work on your part though to keep those up-to-date though.